KDE-Forum.org

So as coming from the Netherlands english is my 2th language

"useless" for me is i cant use it because its not giving me the what i need.

Linux is all choice if 1 app is not giving what You want look for an other one.

So I did You prefer only text no avatars emotions nothing
thats your choice

So let me have My Choice, Amsn

And have respect for the choises other persons make.

I have spent a masive amount of time creating themes for KDE and run a debian repo that gets quite a lot of hits so I was keen to try KDE4 and see what was required to port my KDE3 themes across. Much to my surprise practically everything has to be totally rewritten. There seems to be no backwards compatibility for anything; not iconsets, kdm's, ksplashes, nothing.
I am not the only person that has dedicated such a large amount of time to providing artwork for the KDE community (just look at how many kde-look contributors there are) and I feel that we have all just received a huge slap in the face for our efforts. "So long and thanks for all the fish"
I get the feeling that we have been completely disregarded. The ease of customising KDE was one of it's biggest attractions and now everybody that worked so hard to create things to actually customise it with are receiving a boot to the head for our efforts?? Does not compute!

I also vote against the vista clone menu too. It is so much slower to use than fly out menus, all that going back and forwards instead of just moving your mouse gets really irritating. Why one would want to copy vista (which is the biggest pos since dos4) is beyond my ken.

I really wanted to end this post with something positive but I just can't think of anything. I can't even assign my mouse buttons to do custom things on the desktop. Even konqueror has been degraded and lost features.
I really do hope that this dumbing down and loss of features is just a product of being unfinished because at this rate all gnome will have to do is add decent ssh capability to their file handler and I'll probably switch to it. I have been a hardcore KDE man for years so I will cut KDE some slack but there is a limit. If I have to start again from scratch with everything anyway ..........

I see you point oh so clear

As i said in the beginning of this forum:

See www.kde-look.org and www.kde-apps.org and not to forget XGL and Compiz

Throw this overboard and start from scratch with KDE4 , this has to lead to a total disaster.

Keep this as a precious gift and use it in KDE4 XGL COMPIZ ICONS PROGRAMS
then you are making sense,

Now with KDE4 we are back to the time off KDE2 no apps and no programs, killing nearly 10 years off hard work by numerous volunteers.

On this link a editors-note and within it a part from Aaron Seigo on KDE4 and the for the users HIDDEN goals of KDE4

http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2008042501726OPDTKE

Have Fun.

Now we can say KDE4 is a FORK of KDE for the corporate market and power users on what ever OS you want

In the talkback's the KDE4 aproach is compared more or less to that of OS/2 latest version.

But OS/2 is dead.

The solution in OS/2 desktop were useless to a normal user only a power user / developer would benefit from it , as i have. Your editor, your source, your compiler , your debugger etc etc come back by opening the map
in which they were started, after you stopped working on it in by closing that map, so your breaks in the debugger were the same as last time etc etc etc.

But a normal KDE user uses a browser Firefox 12 tabs and if he closes Firefox and restart it he gets the same tabs with content,
Uses Writer from OpenOffice but not a single letter takes more than lets say 1 hour ,
Sees a pps with Impress,
Chats with programs as Kopete or Amsn.
Listens to music
Reads - writes - prrints his mail in firefox from gmail or hotmail
Using a scanner with Sane Xsane A HP Scanner/Printer with HPijs


So let us have our KDE with the content of www.kde-look.org and www.kde-apps.org and not to forget XGL and Compiz

and let the corporate KDE4 market have there paid open source solutions.

Quoted from "Someguyouknow"

Quoted

Originally posted by zero_schezard
I'm sorry, but this "Will always be problems" isn't going to work. Enlightenment (CVS version) is pretty more stable than KDE4, and the developers insist that E is still Alpha. KDE4 doesn't nearly have half of the features of KDE3, it is slow with "desktop (d)effects", and it's buggy (on my PC, when I logout and login again, my widgets and even the taskbar just disappears - I need to remove ~/.kde folder). And, it's "stable", as the developers say.

And, should I say, they reinvent the wheel. Why "desktop effects" when we have Compiz/Beryl? Wouldn't be more inteligent to help on compiz/beryl development, and integrate it better with KDE?

Then use Enlightenment... KDE4 is far more advance than most desktop environments. Read the reviews from Ars Technica and you will see that the framework behind KDE4 is very advance and could lead to many wonderful things.

Enlightenment, while nice, is meant to be a minimal desktop. A small desktop for slower machines.

And there are also reasons for not use Compiz/Beryl. This was explained on one of the developers blogs. If I find the link, I will post it.

That said, I don't disagree that there are a bunch of problems still. People just need to have more patience. There are reasons it was sent out to the wild and they are we as a whole are going to benefit from this choice. Like it or not.

I tell you the way I see KDE going I think I will use Enlightenment or even black box. I would rather have a minimal desktop then a blotted crappy desktop that is made so idiots cann't screw it up then a desktop that any one with two or more brain cells cann't get it to do what they want. And this wait you will get your functionality back sounds very bogus to me. It's very clear from the way Dolphin is going that eye candy is the order of the day. Midnight commander is a better file manager then dolpin. But hey if you have 500 gigs of porn images to keep track of then dolphin should work just fine for you. But for me I'm very disappointed with what KDE is doing. Yea it's not my baby and yea I can use another desktop and if things continue the way they re going I will I assure you. That is the freedom of FOSS. I think KDE is going to go from the most used desktop to the least in one fell swoop.

I just read that KDE core is dependant on Dolphin. So I guess I should start looking around for another desktop now and avoid the rush. I think what will happen is KDE will lose market share and someother desktop will start to command the highest amount of market share. Mainly because the volunteers that made KDE so great will work on some other desktop. All because KDE dosen't listen to it's users. I really suspect this is KDE answer to Bluecrap from RedHat. I stopped using RedHat because of it. But Redhat does have corporate customers that KDE would love to get. KDE should wake up to the fact that RedHat has corporate customers not because of their disktop but rather their support services.

As it is now, I would have to agree with some points:
I can't use it as a standalone desktop, sometimes I am depending on KDE 3 applications;
The composition effects aren't as, "flash" as compiz fusion or beryl;
The panel is a bit less usefull then Kicker.

However, I can't wait for it to mature:
Kwin's composition effects might erase the need for compiz fusion for a lot of people;
The panel is more, "code friendly", so developers will have an easier time developing plasmoids for it, meaning there will be the same functions as kicker and more;
the applications will be able to inter-communicate better then before, allowing for more options (such as search engines in all applications (as changing the data in one application changes the data throughout the application base, making searching easier)).

I think, the way things are going, people are going to be asking what kicker was in 7 years time, or wandering how we survived with stand-alone applications and separate search applets, or wandering what it was like to have a separate program to control desktop effects (that don't always work, I'd like to point out)...

I dislike how few Koffice applications I can use (it has problems with ODF), but I can't wait for it to have more development time behind it.

I also found that Dolphin has become a lot more useful (for me), as opposed to kde 3's dolphin. However, I would at least like to be able to set Konqueror as my default file manager instead of Dolphin.

I also found that Dolphin has become a lot more useful (for me), as opposed to kde 3's dolphin. However, I would at least like to be able to set Konqueror as my default file manager instead of Dolphin.


Link to new things I find out ------ 23dornot23d2 http://keithinfrance.stumbleupon.com/ ------

Putting pictures on here of all applications I get running ------ http://s210.photobucket.com/albums/bb245/23dornot23d/

Seems to be going well ....... all 3D programs I use work Blender , K3D , K3DSurf , Wings3d see above link ....

HTML-insane

First I would agree with a previous post by same author..... the menu with 2 choices is brilliant - (it is too slow to use the existing vista type layout)...... the one you use (HTML-insane) is the better ....... so now changed to classic ..... cannot get rid of vista style on without it crashing though .....
So got 2 no big problem ......



Second - Dolphin - I spent a lot of time trying to choose a file and open it in a terminal window - easy before ....... (crash - bang no terminal window )
Gnome Terminal works ok though strange - (ok re-installed konsole - no crash from dolphin) was not terminal or kterm


______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

To make it work better for me ...... I installed the very old enlightement (E16 see below) improved usability and functionality its wicked ....



You get double the visual effects ..... plus a neat way to store all applications in use, but not being used (easy to see whats what and select the right one) ..... if someone can develop this I am sure that it will be a winner ......

or then again just use E17

http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=149676 is a generic Linux desktop bug that comes with both KDE 3 and 4. If you copy something from one program and close that program the clipboard will no longer be available.
This is what I did the last time, post here a bug and have people vote for it as I cannot solve it myself.
Please vote.

KDE is doing the same stupid mistake MS made with InternetExplorer. They make IE the center of everything that the windowing system does. Dolphin is the IE of KDE. And of course Dolphin bites the big one. Instead of using the Unix design paradigm of small usable programs that can be linked together to form useful programs. Kde has decided to be a sheep and follow the bleetings of MicroSoft. Monolithic is the order of the day. What a colossal mistake. The design should be a group of objects that can be linked together, gee something like lets see how about QT. Even when it is right under their knoses they can't see it and mindlessly follow MicroSoft's biggest mistake. Or maybe they want to take over the desktop on the Unix environments just as Microsoft did and they are using the same tactics. I bet that's it. They are copying Microsoft so they can control the desktop. What bastards.

Well I for one will not tolerate it.

Quoted from "misfire99"

KDE is doing the same stupid mistake MS made with InternetExplorer. They make IE the center of everything that the windowing system does. Dolphin is the IE of KDE. And of course Dolphin bites the big one. Instead of using the Unix design paradigm of small usable programs that can be linked together to form useful programs. Kde has decided to be a sheep and follow the bleetings of MicroSoft. Monolithic is the order of the day. What a colossal mistake. The design should be a group of objects that can be linked together, gee something like lets see how about QT. Even when it is right under their knoses they can't see it and mindlessly follow MicroSoft's biggest mistake. Or maybe they want to take over the desktop on the Unix environments just as Microsoft did and they are using the same tactics. I bet that's it. They are copying Microsoft so they can control the desktop. What bastards.

Well I for one will not tolerate it.

I am not a huge Dolphin fan myself, but it's purpose was to make a SMALLER LIGHTER file manager. Konqueror was getting to be IEish. KDE recognized that and decided to better split the functionality between Konq and Dolphin. Whether or not you like the implementation, at least KDE recognized a problem and is moving toward correcting it.

I have kde 4.1 on my computer.

Switch user is back in the menu but dont work as in kde3.


What is gone is the posebility to put icons on the desktop and the panel and place then on the panel where YOU want

Al together the desktop seems to be a copy of Vista.

You have to hack ~.kde4/share/config/plasma-appletsrc to position the icons on the panel
I saved it from 4.0.4 and put it in 4.1

The desktop / panel / pager configuration options are far less as in 4.0.4
.
It seems that with every new release of kde4 the goodies are gone and the vista/gnome look remains.

So for me RIP kde4. no grave on KDE-HILL just burn it

You better give it an other name QT4-desktop-0.1 GPL-3 commercial Linux Windows Mac

Leave kde3 out of the discussions kde 3.5.9. is not far from becoming 3.6 the ultimo kde desktop.

So now we are waiting for Opensuse 11.0 with kde 3.5.9 Compiz and a NO INSTALL kde4

I am a long time user of KDE, since KDE1 on suse 5. something. I watched it grow, it grew more and more usable, more and more feature rich. I was an ear;y adopter of 2 and 3, from alpha. I tried KDE4 alpha, looked promising and I had high hopes. Along comes the kde4.0. Not the most stable thing i have ever ran, little actual usability of the Desktop. I read the reasons behind making the Desktop as it is, thought I would try them. Sorry, A Desktop is a place to do work, thats why we have multiple desktops. I want to arrange Icons as I want so I get quick access to things that I need, yes I can do that now, but they are not icons, I cannot right click on a file on the desktop and send it as an email attachment.

Use Folder View, yes it does most of what I want, but needs a bit of work to enable a functional desktop, as opposed to a pretty place to hang windows which is what the current default is.

What I would like to see is:

A choice between a traditional Desktop as you can partly get with the Folder View for those of us that want to work, and the dumbed down eye candy desktop for the kind of people in the office who line up their pens up in a row and have pot plants, you know the type, look nice, think they are important, but don't do any real work or if they try to, they break stuff.

As for the customisation options, They will come along in time. When 2 and 3 came out, they did not have a full feature set (though a lot more then 4 at present). Its high on my list of wants, but not critical, I want my desktop to be different, not the same as everyone elses. If as has been mentioned, they are after the corporate market, then the sysadmins can just not install configuration options (Kiosk mode anyone)

I think KDE4 will be excellent, just it is not feature or usable ready for more advanced use as yet. I will keep the latest version installed on one box for when I will be able to switch and be able to work. I was thinking that maybe by 4.1 (the hoped for actual release after KDE4.0) but its looking to be two or three releases after that. Heres hoping 3.x will still have some decent support for a couple of years yet as no competing environment comes close IMHO.

My current verdict, promising future, but just not yet.

Have been exploring kde 4.1.









What a disappointment.
Yes I understand that Qt 4 gives big “behind the scenes”
improvements in memory usage, 3D, gaming and inter OS operability.
But get the user basics right as well. Lets have decent desktop
configuration. The ability to drag and drop widgets to panel or
desktop and at least replicate kde 3.5 applets before inventing new
widgets. (Where's the widget version of Keyboard Status ?)

Had to re-install Mandriva 3 times today - I put it all down to KDE4. First, my widgets were going all over the place. I couldn't restore the task bar to defaults (no time to fiddle with a fresh installation), I decided to do it again.

Second time, RPMDrake (Install/Remove) applications locked. My wireless connection stopped connecting for no apparent reason. After failing to reconnect my wireless router or install applicaitons - I decided to go back again to the drawing board.

Everything works fine now. I have got KDE 4.0.3 installed having downgraded from 408 and 404. The one tiny thing I miss now is my run dialog if someone could care to tell me where I can get that. I found it very useful the ability to sudo a command through the run dialog.

About dolphin - I prefer looking at my files in a list not icons. I wish to be able to make a configuration that stays. I also hate the idea of opening every mouse click in a different panel. I'd prefer to open everything in the same panel chosen by me. That would be nice!

My last message was : waiting for opensuse 11.0

Now i have it.

Kde4 sucks as ever this version is 4.0.4 even 4.1 downloaded and still .........
It wil not perform and as they say Nvidia card???
SO deleted kde4 completely .

Running KDE 3.5.9 on chip quatro q6600 with 6 gig mem Nvidia 8600GT SLI is as it gets Nitro.

And who needs plasmoids?? download screenlets from Packman repositories and you get 64 little programs written in PY
you put them on your desktop can enlarge them even a Gmail checker that works a clock a calander
etc etc
And then compiz-fusion runs like a bad out of hell spinning the cube is that fast you cant see the sides

So thanks all who made this possible.


KDE: It's Time For a Fork... Is It Really? by Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols on http://www.linuxtoday.com/
says it all make KDE4 a new desktop with an other name so a fork from kde3 to QT4-plasma-walhalla
and stay with KDE 3.5.9 .

Cheers.