KDE-Forum.org

Programs in the KDE menu also have descriptions, don't they?

No. He's hinting that:

1. There is a feature in KDE that makes the K Menu show the app description, something like:
SpeedCrunch - Calculator or (Calculator) SpeedCrunch

and

2. That different distros display their menus differently. For example, in Kubuntu, the description is shown beside the name of the app. A vanilla (pure, unmodified) KDE system does the same.

What you are suggesting is a bit difficult to implement, and comparing the situation to Windows XP is not proper. This is why:

1. Microsoft dictates the basic default software that they put on Windows. This is why they can name their basic apps with generic names, because those are THE apps that all Windows ship with. There is very little or no conflict with other apps. (Btw, if we follow your logic, Notepad should be "Text Editor" and Wordpad should be "Rich Text Editor" right?).

2. There is no single body/person that dictates to all Linux distributions what to include by default in their distribution. While KDE (and GNOME) have a set of default apps, there is no law written in stone that all distros should have those installed by default. The fact is that distros will ship the most popular or more maintained app in a particular category. Case in point, neither Amarok, nor Kaffeine, nor OpenOffice, nor SpeedCrunch for that matter, are part of the "default" KDE system, yet almost all distros ship with these. You cannot fairly compare the situation with Microsoft and the situation with KDE or Linux because they are not the same. Microsoft holds a monopoly over the default apps they install. Linux gives distros the freedom to set their own. Which leads to #3...

3. There are many apps available of the same category. KCalc and SpeedCrunch, Juk, Noatun, and Amarok, Kaboodle and Kaffeine. These are all KDE apps, which some distros ship with, sometimes all of them, sometimes just a select few. There is no single default app to rule them all. There might be a "recommended" default app, depending on whether they are found in the main KDE modules (like KCalc over SpeedCrunch), but those are just recommendations. Some of the recommended apps have almost died, so distros prefer not to ship them. That's why you can't just use generic names for apps (whether KDE or GNOME) because KDE doesn't have a monopoly over the names of the apps or whether they ship by default. Now the situation is analogous (analogy only, not exactly similar) to the existence of different apps of the same kind on Windows, let's say Windows Media Player, Winamp, Real Player, etc. You can't all name them "Media Player", because Microsoft doesn't have control over those apps. You might argue that everyone knows what Winamp or Real Player is (although I'd argue that not everyone does), but that's only true because they've become very popular. The same could be said for apps like Amarok and K3b.

That said, yes some KDE apps do need a bit of re-thinking. But there are some among those you mentioned that are already understandable:
- KCharSelect - Char(acter) Select. (Since when did "Character Map" become more understandable? Only because Windows is more popular)
- KAlarm - er... "alarm"?
- KDEGroupWare - KDE Groupware
- KTimer (timer?), KPilot (something to do with Palm Pilots), KFloppy (floppy disks?), KitchenSync (those owning devices with Sync functions would understand this).

But the good thing is that KDE doesn't presume that you'll immediately understand all the apps' functions based on their names. That is it includes application descriptions in the K Menu. What they cannot do is to force the developer to change the name of the app into something generic, or something that they don't want to. That freedom and right is given to the developer who put all his work on that app.

Welcome to the world of Free and Open Source Software.

KDE Developers are slavishly closed minded about this issue.

I mean, really now.... user1001 puts forth a valid point and all this forum can do is shift the responsibility on him to turn on the "description" tag in kmenu????

That is so backward. It's like the KDE community is saying,"Sure you can choose... just as long as we get to define your options and control your input. You aren't in the "Klub"so you are not needed here... take your little microsoft kloned self and go back to where you kame from..."

KDE developers need to get their head out of the sand and realize that if thousands of people think the naming scheme is stupid -it might be worth reviewing.

I have to agree to the original post to some degree. I don't think this has anything to do with the installed defaults. It's simple common sense.

It seems the Linux community will sometimes refuse to do something that may have been done in Windows simply because it is in Windows. Not necessarily because it's a bad idea.

Is it really necessary to pre-pend a K to every single app out there designed for the KDE environment?

I don't think it was a simple matter that some apps are easily identifiable if you remove the K from the beginning, but rather that everyone seems to feel the rather pointless need to include a 'K' or a 'G' to the app name just because the environment your running in starts with that letter.

Kontact, Kalendar, Konsole, etc. It's rather silly and boring. Why not break out of the Linux mold and come up with some creative names. Make the description feature actually useful, no?

Quoted

Originally posted by DJRumpy
I have to agree to the original post to some degree. I don't think this has anything to do with the installed defaults. It's simple common sense.

It seems the Linux community will sometimes refuse to do something that may have been done in Windows simply because it is in Windows. Not necessarily because it's a bad idea.

Is it really necessary to pre-pend a K to every single app out there designed for the KDE environment?

I don't think it was a simple matter that some apps are easily identifiable if you remove the K from the beginning, but rather that everyone seems to feel the rather pointless need to include a 'K' or a 'G' to the app name just because the environment your running in starts with that letter.

Kontact, Kalendar, Konsole, etc. It's rather silly and boring. Why not break out of the Linux mold and come up with some creative names. Make the description feature actually useful, no?

I registered myself here just to TOTALLY agree with you!
No more!

Or, what about some sort of 'auto description' type thing.

Just an idea, but what if we were to put in some sort of script, and have when a new kde menu entry is added, and there is no description, it'll do an apropos <program name>, and if it doesn't return "nothing appropriate", it'll stick what it returns in for the description?

Just a thought...

I have said all along that for the life of me I can't understand why they don't just fix this "naming" issue?

If it's so important to use a "k" to denote what desktop environmet the application runs with, why not just use the letter in a better way?

for example:

"k-Mediaplayer"

Gnome could then (hopefully follow suite with:

"g-Mediaplayer"

And if we had a multi-environment app why not something like:

"kg-Mediaplayer"

Or maybe it would be better to have the denotation at the end of the name:

"Mediaplayer-k" or "Mediaplayer-3.3.8-i686-kgx."

This would be so much better AND more importantly you could look at an app and tell before installing it that it will work in a standard "X" environment, a "KDE" environment, and a "Gnome" environment.

If KDE developers want to advance the desktop they really need to be a leader on this issue (for once.)

You can't call an application k-Mediaplayer, because there are so many mediaplayers that work in (are designed for) KDE. Like jucato so correctly said: you have the freedom to choose between them. And you have to be able to distinguish them by name. You can turn on descriptions in your KDE menu if you want to see at a glance what kind of application it is.

Quoted

That is so backward. It's like the KDE community is saying,"Sure you can choose... just as long as we get to define your options and control your input. You aren't in the "Klub"so you are not needed here... take your little microsoft kloned self and go back to where you kame from..."

I just have to say, I like that. The 'k' joke, I mean. I totally disagree, though.

The 'K' thing? I think it's as much a point of humor as a way to identify the targeted Window Manager. KDE developers try to find a memorable, unique and appropriate name. Then they hide a 'K' in it somewhere. It's a way to tell everyone: don't take the world too seriously. You'll live longer.

I agree. We already know we're using KDE. Let's move away from putting a K in front of things - it really seems weird to me.

Here's the reason - yes, they have descriptions. But come on - when you look at a list alphabetically or just to look and see where it should be, since many things have K's in front of them, it is no longer intuitive - it's a nightmare to have to search for some people.

Sandaili

yawn...

has anybody here actually looked at kcontrol? there you have all the options available to you even to show description only.

and why is linux called linux? not very descriptive now, is it...

That is an excellent point about "searching" for an app. All the "K" naming needs to be stopped! It's not "kute" anymore!

Oh come on. Kcontrol vs Linux - hmmm one is about something like a control panel.

Now...someone who is new to the computer, looking for control panel....looking for anything...is in a mass of K's in the menu. Not fun.

This isn't about "descriptions" - it's about having NORMAL names.

using a K for something that has a C - like Kontact - FINE. I don't care. Putting it in front of other things for no reason - that's stupid. Why? Because it's counter-intuitive. I guess not everyone thinks so.

What new users are going to go into their Kcontrol panel and redo everything so they can find it easier? :*

Another point:

Research studies have shown that the human brain recognises words based largely on the shape of the first and last character. So, ansmiusg you wnat yuor uerss to dleevop an iivntiute use of KDE, tihs 'K' nmnaig stretgay is soohtnig ysulroef in the foot. Insetad of wrinkog wtih the way the biarn pcosseres itoramfinon, it adds an etrxa briarer of metnal pocesrinsg wcihh liimts nartual use of the tool.

No doubt many will chime in to say that users should be forced to think, even about mundane menu selections - musn't dumb down after all! This is OSS - it's supposed to be obtuse!

sim