KDE-Forum.org

Quoted from "blackbelt_jones"

Please don't let widgets take the place of applications! For example, please don't drop Kpager because you've got a pager plasmoid. KPager can be kept out of the way until I need it, then called up with a keyboard shortcut, then removed.

On other hand, I wonder if someone is working on a plasmoid that I can run applications in. Something that would enable me to run hot-babe, or maybe xdaliclock, or even gaim, as a plasmoid.

I whole heartedly agree. In fact, I think this whole "Widget Fad" has missed the boat entirely, on every platform. We already have all the apps we need. We don't need more ways to do the same old things we've been doing for EONS. You mean we're going to need to depend on even MORE developers who will get bored of their code? Why?

What would be useful is a way to widgetize applications. Mostly, just strip the window managers widgets and embed the application on the desktop or in a bar or whatever. Sure, not all apps will work this well, at least immediately, but atleast we can get some REAL functionality instead of more boondoggles that are use less.

I agree that we should widgetize applications. Something were we right click on the title bar, select "Widgetize", drag it to the desktop, scale, rotate, and crop as needed. BAM! Instant widget. Between composting and the window manager, all this functionality is there. Then, "save widget" and it gets added to our library of widgets. Most applications could probably be coaxed this way, and those that can't, maybe it wouldn't be so hard to make them with a patch or two.

Where's my Celestia Widget? Do I really need to rewrite celestia to have a space widget? Why not run the program, give in some instructions, widgetize it, crop out the menues, and I'm done.

Where's my gmail widget? I can fool gmail in to thinking I'm on an iPhone, and that will give me a VERY useful, minimalistic gmail application without any coding. If only I could just take a Konqueror instance, crop out everything but the "web page" and I've got a g-mail widget, all without touching any code.

Using vmware, wine, or rdesktop, I could even widgetize windows applications. Check the health of my company's windows servers, or widgetize the progress bar from Ghost as I publish my Ghost image under a VM.

Maybe we can even crop out segments of a single app and make them multiple widgets:
Where's my XMMS widget? There probably is one, but all I need is the play and stop buttons and the volume slider. Sadly, those aren't next to each other. What we could do is load up XMMS, pick out regions of the interface, widgetize, and then we have three new widgets from the same program.

A window manager is a means of organizing multiple discreet interfaces. A widgeting system is a means of organizing multiple discreet interface elements. A widgeting interface should simply allow us to control our own interfaces.

THEN people can still make widgets, they just act like real applications, only they come pre widgetized so the user doesn't need to scale, crop, or tweak the widget, they just select it from the library and go.

+1

Fantastic idea!
I don't know how hard it would be to implement, but it would certainly help to revolutionise the desktop.
Possibly an idea worth trying sooner rather that later, before all the ports of kde 3.x apps get sorted

I use wmii -- it's a really minimalist window manager that automatically arranges things so that there's no unused screen space. It might seem weird at first (everything tiles -- when you open something new, the screen or column splits and the new thing goes in the new space), but it also handles lots of virtual desktops very quickly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wmii

So as for widgets and your idea of removing window decorations, etc. -- it's been done, and some of us no longer spend any time dragging windows around trying to make them overlap better :)

(In case you're wondering what I'm even doing here; I'm here to gripe because I use Konqueror and Gwenview and KDE4 has turned them from useful applications into something you'd find on a mac or under gnome and I'm greatly annoyed about that...)

~Felix.

EDIT: disabled graphic smilies. As you might've guessed, I don't like them either :P

Quoted from "thetrivialstuff"

So as for widgets and your idea of removing window decorations, etc. -- it's been done, and some of us no longer spend any time dragging windows around trying to make them overlap better

I think you may have missed the point there.... The point being about how much more useful plasma would be if you could attach any given app to the desktop itself ;p

wmii looks too low tech for me....reminds me of my ole windoze 3.1 setup

Quoted from "azzapkp"

wmii looks too low tech for me....reminds me of my ole windoze 3.1 setup :)

I think that's part of the problem -- we shouldn't worry about an application "looking" too low tech; the issue should be how functional it is. For instance, wmii *is* kind of low-tech -- the compiled binary is less than 1 MB -- but I find it more functional and much easier to use than Windows Vista or KDE 4.

At one time, I remember I would spend a lot of time obsessing over details like what colour title bars were, and what the buttons looked like, and what my desktop wallpaper was, and getting icons to line up nicely. Now I don't have any of those things (well, my windows sort of have title bars and a 1-pixel border, but that's one colour) and I can spend more time actually doing stuff. I call that a bigger leap forward than KDE 4's plasma.

~Felix.

Fair point.

One of the things that interests me about KDE4 is plasma and the concept of a different type of workspace. It's fairly experimental at this point, I think it's probably a well known fact that right now KDE4 should never have been marketed as a finished product.
I'm not interested in having a spinning cube to switch between desktops, I want to hit a key combo and instantly be performing the task I want, and I need the flexibility to set up for different sessions.
I don't obsess about colours and lining up icons but I like to be able to define my workspace.

But I wouldn't call the simplicity and efficiency of wmii as a leap forward. If you're happy to work with such methods then that's definitely what you should stick with. A great thing about linux is the ability to choose a window manager. I would suggest this is perhaps the wrong forum for a dedicated wmii user perhaps - I don't think KDE4 should, or will, head that way.

I personally am embracing the change to plasma, just as a concept that may come good. I support the idea of backwards compatibility to KDE3 not only until the bugs are ironed out, but also until a more cut-down-and straight-to-the-point experience is available; there are a lot of frustrations here but also some interesting ideas.

I just installed 4.1.2 (I think it is) in kubuntu and found out (it took about a day) how to add an application icon to the desktop... here is the recipe
1. add the folder view widget to the desktop... you'll likely get a transparent panel showing your home directory
2. in it, right click and /Create new/Link to application/
3. do the stuff and you'll find an default icon in your home folder
4. drag this icon onto your desktop... you'll create a copy there... an original will stay in your home folder
5. right click on the desktop icon and you get the usual four panels of properties and you can select icon, set app command, etc, etc
I'll make no comments about KDE4 usability, etc, but if someone can tell me where 'line up icons' has gone, I'd love to know