KDE-Forum.org

Well... They are given the choice of using 3.5.X or 4.0 so i really don't see the problem.
And if a business uses KDE 3.5.X right now, I seriously doubt they will have any/many problems adjusting to 4.1.

I think most of your complaints are premature and have yet to be justified.

Again, isn't it premature to call it an error at this point in time?

I mean, do we even have proof to back that up? Have polls been taken with potential users in a business setting?

Also, KDE 4 is still in the very early stages yet.

I checked out a pre-release version of KDE4 and I have just installed the latest Debian experimenta package. I do not like the way things are going. A lot of the control I am used to and enjoy has been taken away from me.
1. The pager sits on the right hand part of the panel. I have not found a way to put it
anywhere else.
2. When I change the background on one desktop, all of the others change also. A
different background for each desktop seems no longer possible.
3. There seems to be no administrator mode for the system settings when run as a normal
user.
4. How does one edit the menus now?
5. How does one add applications to the panel now? Or does one do it at all.
6. Adding personal wallpapers now is a pain. I have not found out how to do it yet, unless I
add them to the /usr/share/wallpapers.
What we have so far is a slick looking interface with most of the control and usability options that set KDE apart taken out. KDE4 has a long way to go before I will start using it. I know that it is early in the cycle, but I want the control back that I have in KDE3.x and the intuitive ways of doing things that I liked so well as opposed to gnome.
It is not the business users that we need to worry about. It is the everyday users who are as dumb or dumber than I am.
KDE3.x was easy for a new user to catch onto and use. It was (and is) great for a user in the middle range of knowledge to use and add on to.
All of that seems to be suddenly gone with KDE4. I will wait for a live cd to come out by one of the distros and maybe I will find out that I am all wet behind the ears. I hope for better things, not just prettier things.
If I cannot get back the things I really like, XFCE or icewm may be my desktop of choice ere long.

Glenn

@glennthigpen
These things will be solved. This is not a decision to make unconfigurable software. It is just that didn't provide those features yet. Please report a bug to let people know what bothers you. Many of the bugs/wishes are already there and they will be solved, you can help developers make better software.

@cheexer
I bet you KDE 4 will be a big succes and will see wider adoption than Gnome.
About comparing KDE with Gnome, I can asure you that the KDE developers produce much more code than Gnome ones. KDE 3 has more features, KDE 4 will have them too, and when requesting a feature/fix from the KDE people you will probably get it faster than from the Gnome people.

Quoted

Originally posted by cheexer
Do the KDE 4.0 developers think ANY business is going to make a quantum jump in training and software to move from KDE 3.5 based apps and desktop to a KDE 4.0 based one?

Of course they are not! What are they going to do? Why, they will move to Gnome, since virtually every commercial linux distro defaults to Gnome anyhow.

Bottom line, due to the discontinuous jump from KDE 3.5 to 4.0, the KDE developers have managed to paint themselves into a corner. NO BUSINESS is going to stake their IT infrastructure on a bunch of developers who think it is cool to fix that which is not broken and to experiment with usability experiments gone bad.

This is damned depressing. Unless the 4.0 folks decide to make a "Classic look" a la Windows XP (that has bullet proof compatibility with 3.5 apps and users), I guess I'll have to use second best now (Gnome) now that KDE 3.5 has no real future in it.

Uuugghhhhhhhh.

I fail to see how the leap from KDE > Gnome would be simpler then 3.5 > 4.x let alone where these 'useability gone bad' parts are, for the most part the desktop shells (excluding the menu) usability is the same.
Although I don't think there was a dying *need* to implement Plasma and recreate the desktop shell, the consolidation is a good thing. Embrace the change (it's shiny!).

It makes all the sense in the world that the configurability and usability is just not built in yet. But it will be.

But I do not understand why Beryl or Fusion is not built in, or at least an option? Will it be?

Quoted

Originally posted by Quantum
It makes all the sense in the world that the configurability and usability is just not built in yet. But it will be.

But I do not understand why Beryl of Fusion is not built in, or at least an option? Will it be?

be?[/quote]

I don't think it makes that much sense that it's not built in for the release at all (although premature inclusion is also wrong). I agree on release early, release often but this is not production and shouldn't be promoted as such, i.e. a .0 release/"KDE 4 is here", this is beta or RC should be tagged as such and launched when it's ready and has the configurability users expect from KDE.

Also think of a new user picking up Kubuntu etc, how many who would be happy, productive & configured in 3.5 will pick up 4.0 and get put off by the defaults and lack of options and booomph - they have been 'lost'.

Still it's going to be great once it's ready

Indeed, I think we agree on that point - but this is not a problem with KDE 4 per se, this is a problem with it being "launched" in it's current state to the 'general public'.

They have been premature about it, 4.1 *should* see KDE how it should be with all it's configurable glory and that should be KDE 4. Users should stick to KDE 3.5 and distro's aimed at the average desktop user should stay clear of giving the 4.0 option until 4.1 is released.

Once all of the config' options etc are sorted KDE 4 will be great for the average first time user.

On the point of recommendations if right now Dad said "son what do i do? KDE 4, or Gnome?", I'd say "KDE 3.5. Jump to 4.1 when it's released."

Quoted

Originally posted by MikeBlamires
I don't think it makes that much sense that it's not built in for the release at all (although premature inclusion is also wrong).

So you can't understand that the whole world can not be built all at once? You think Rome was built in a day?

Patience my lad, patience.

Quoted

Originally posted by Quantum
So you can't understand that the whole world can not be built all at once? You think Rome was built in a day?

Patience my lad, patience.

Well, now... that's just silly. Even a crappy little roadside amusement park knows that you don't open the gates with half the rides and attractions still packed up in the crates! You open the gates AFTER the ferris wheel and other "big draw" rides are up and running. You open the gates and put on a show. You don't open the gates and then hope people will mill around waiting for you too get your show ready...

I think kde 4.0 is alpha software at best!
The ideas behind it are great, but they should have been honest and said "we dreamed for too long and did not get the coding done. 4.0 should not have been released.

Makes me wonder about the planning wisdom of those 'running' the project. What were they smoking when they thought the could have a 4.0 release in July '07 and October '07...?

Quoted

Originally posted by mshelby1
You open the gates AFTER the ferris wheel and other "big draw" rides are up and running. You open the gates and put on a show. You don't open the gates and then hope people will mill around waiting for you too get your show ready...

Who ever said the gates are open? Don't you have to put a special entry in sources to get the packages? And don't you have to manually add '-t experimental' to every apt-get command you use to install it?

Doesn't say 'open' to me...

IANAD (I am not a developer), but I support the effort, as I have for ten years. Give 'em a break, and use 3.5 for now like I am.