KDE-Forum.org

Why are you trying to keep something same as what you have used to?
I personally prefer VTech TV to a command line like system, time of using console is over! please consider it...

Kde 4 took more time getting used to and setting up. It kept crashing every thirty minutes for some reason or another. Once the taskbar disappeared completely and was cured only by resetting the whole thing.A person who thinks he has seen the worst definitely should try deleting the wallpaper file.

May I direct your attention to this article.

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I personally prefer VTech TV to a command line like system, time of using console is over! please consider it...

I strongly disagree. For experienced linux users, the command-line is, for most tasks, much more powerful than any graphical interface.

This is why defaults do matter even to systems like KDE. I don't personally think there is anything revoloutionary about the KDE 4 feautures, or great changes in useability (although the menu system has changed) just a few extra bits of UI sugar have appeared. I do like the integration of the desktop components into plasma.
The initial look is not great and I would suggest it needs to change, certainly it needs to become more efficient on it's screen use. It doesn't need to be perfect but it needs to be better.
When the configurability returns (>=4.1 by the sound of it) it's going to be spot on.

@mohamnag: the command line is one of the most powerful parts of linux, moving the UI closer to Kernel Mode and suddenly we have Windows...
Keep it as is, we all get the powerful shell and the UI can take care of most of it for them, everyones a winner.
MS are busy trying to push "Powershell" which brings a pretty powerful shell interface to windows. The command line is far from over.

cheers,
Mike

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Originally posted by Michiel_H
May I direct your attention to this article.

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I personally prefer VTech TV to a command line like system, time of using console is over! please consider it...

I strongly disagree. For experienced linux users, the command-line is, for most tasks, much more powerful than any graphical interface.

Come on, who is that exprienced linux user?
I'm a 10 year windows developer. Although I have used dos and win 3.1 for a while, migrating to a command line linux is a ache for me. However I see a huge inexperienced users coming towards linux who are not able to type even one command line!
In one hand we want them to make linux the most used system in the world (or at least of a acceptable number of users). In other hand they don't want a system in which half a work should be done in command line.

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Originally posted by mohamnag

Quoted

Originally posted by Michiel_H
May I direct your attention to this article.

Quoted

I personally prefer VTech TV to a command line like system, time of using console is over! please consider it...

I strongly disagree. For experienced linux users, the command-line is, for most tasks, much more powerful than any graphical interface.

Come on, who is that exprienced linux user?
I'm a 10 year windows developer. Although I have used dos and win 3.1 for a while, migrating to a command line linux is a ache for me. However I see a huge inexperienced users coming towards linux who are not able to type even one command line!
In one hand we want them to make linux the most used system in the world (or at least of a acceptable number of users). In other hand they don't want a system in which half a work should be done in command line.

Me... and there are plenty alike. I don't do stuff in the command line because I can't do it in the GUI, I do it because for the most part it's quicker for me.
The GUI options available for Linux users are plenty powerful for users who just want to point and click.

Just because the GUI can do it, doesn't mean that the ability to do it on the command line should be removed.

But no where in KDE4 command line is removed and no one is going to remove command line.
As you mention there are plenty of users who don't want to use windows and also they don't want to learn linux (because it's not their job). They need a system in which they can do every day jobs easily.
AND THIS IS NOT WHAT LINUX IS, at least up to now.
Just for an example I tried to connect to my VPN network, it was really a ache! I tried 3 or 4 different ways and almost no one worked every where!

And IMHO, the new interface is among the best I've seen. I'm just waiting for more KDE4-oriented apps to come. Probably the only thing that I don't like are the things KDE 4.0 copies from Vista and Mac OS X - I am tired of all this sarcasm from Vista and Mac fans that consider those things to be the signs of Linux's being a weak copy of those OS'es. I guess, it's about time Linux develops it's own image. Damn, the next Amarok even uses the Coverflow from iPods - I consider that to be a shame: it makes Linux look like a gipsy who steals everything shiny. But anyway, KDE 4.0 is already a step forward - since it has many eyecandies, that other interfaces cannot offer.
Speaking of the bugs... Please, tell me - can you find ANY stable release of any Linux distribution that ships KDE 4.0 by default? All distros (Fedora, Mandriva, OpenSuSE, Ubuntu) would be released no sooner than in April, and at the moment even the poweruser-oriented distros like ArchLinux, Gentoo & co don't offer KDE 4.0 in their stable branches. So why complain?

"Why are you trying to keep something same as what you have used to?"

Is that a serious question?

Try driving a car that doesn't follow the standard car paradigm.

"I personally prefer VTech TV to a command line like system, time of using console is over! please consider it..."

What does your inability to type have to do with anything?

You don't like CLI's, fine. What does that have to do with KDE? The whole point of this thread is that this new GUI is broken as compared to the old GUI it is supposed to replace. CLI's have no relevance to the discussion.

Or, as they say in Mexico: I have an aunt who plays the guitar.

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Originally posted by leereyno
"Why are you trying to keep something same as what you have used to?"

Is that a serious question?

Try driving a car that doesn't follow the standard car paradigm.

"I personally prefer VTech TV to a command line like system, time of using console is over! please consider it..."

What does your inability to type have to do with anything?

You don't like CLI's, fine. What does that have to do with KDE? The whole point of this thread is that this new GUI is broken as compared to the old GUI it is supposed to replace. CLI's have no relevance to the discussion.

Or, as they say in Mexico: I have an aunt who plays the guitar.

And aren't cars getting simpler and simpler every day? or you start your car contacting wires? no one would use linux if it doesn't become easier every day, and becoming a typist is not a concept of using computers even if you like so.
Read the first post again, this thread is not about broken GUI, its about HOW KDE4 LOOKS LIKE.
Probably you have read the wrong thread!

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Originally posted by mohamnag

And aren't cars getting simpler and simpler every day? or you start your car contacting wires? no one would use linux if it doesn't become easier every day, and becoming a typist is not a concept of using computers even if you like so.
Read the first post again, this thread is not about broken GUI, its about HOW KDE4 LOOKS LIKE.
Probably you have read the wrong thread!

Simpler and simpler every day? Clearly you know nothing about cars.

The technology that goes into automobiles has steadily matured since Karl Benz rolled the first real working example out of his workshop over a century ago.

While cars have changed over time, the skills requited to drive one have not changed in decades. Take someone who has learned to drive in 2008 and put them behind the wheel of a car build in 1958, and guess what, they'll be able to drive it (especially if it is an automatic).

Why?

Because the improvements and refinements that have been made have never broken the standard car paradigm.

Power steering, power brakes, power locks and windows, all make the car easier to use, but without changing HOW you use it.

The sole exception to this is the automatic transmission, which is why some people can't drive a stick and others can.

KDE must follow the same model.

Don't break interface compatibility under the misguided notion that "New" and "different" mean "better."

When people get behind the wheel of a car, they expect certain things. This is equally true of users who log into a computer. Change the paradigm on them and they'll become frustrated, angry, and ultimately either surrender to the new interface, unhappily, or find a way to move away from it.

Most people who use computers use Windows, with a few using Macs. KDE should take page from Microsoft's playbook and "embrace and extend" both interfaces, allowing users to choose one, or even mix and match from the features of both.

Trying to chase after novice and unskilled users by reinventing the GUI is a waste of everyone's time. The ergonomics research has already been done, and the fruits of that labor can be found sitting on the shelf at Best Buy.

Those two paradigms can be improved upon, but only if those improvements don't break the paradigm in the process.

The look of KDE can be pretty much anything that the developers dream up, as long as the functionality of it, the way that it works and behaves, can be customized to mimic these two interfaces. The model can even be improved ala power brakes. Improvements that break the model can be made, but they should always be optional and user configurable.

The fact that after major changes to the architecture of KDE the configurability has temporarily gone down doesn't surprise me at all.
I personally don't like the menu, for which there will be an alternative, the fact that the desktop doesn't precisely represent the Desktop folder (I keep a lot of files there for quick access) and one missing feature from the transparency effect that vastly increased my productivity with compiz. Performance tweaks and bug fixes will come naturally.

The only mistake the devs might have made is not keeping this a RC. Everybody jumped to try out the new release and they were disappointed.

And on the console issue, no one is being forced to use it. Most things can be done easily from a GUI and where that ability is missing it's usually because of stubborn vendors that don't release drivers and software for linux. This is slowly changing. The restricted drivers manager thing is one of the several community attempts to remedy this.

I, and many others, simply find the console faster for many things. I also use Yakuake in order to get a console ASAP after I press the shortcut key. I could do pretty much everything in a GUI (and sometimes it's faster that way), but I still do a lot of things in the CLI. This is a bit like the difference between a window based and an orthodox file manager: both to the same thing, only not always as fast.

You do not have to justify using a command prompt.

If you want to use a command prompt, that is your choice to make. If you don't want to, that is also your choice to make. Anyone who would seek to interfere with your right to make that choice is a jackass at the very least.