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Posts: 55

Location: Willemstad Curacao

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Thursday, July 3rd 2008, 10:24pm

KDE 4 and Opensuse 11.0

Still Opensuse 11.0

Now with KDE4 beta2

deleted the container wich comes up when you start kde4

installed Screenlets you have to copy the autostart map kde3 to kde4
Nice icons oxygen icons are childsplay compared to the Screenlets icons

The screenlets icons have 2 handels they appear when you click the icon it schows a settings and delete handle
right click on the icons gives a rolldown menu with al the possebilitys.

Using Amsn or Emesene as chat program
Xmms for sound and Xine as video/dvd player
Gkrellm for monitoring the computer including all sensors

Same wallpaper as in kde3

The only 2 differences between kde3 and kde4 as you use it this way are no transparancy of the panel in kde4
and no notifications-sound as in kde3

Kde4 is slower in starting up as kde3

so i ask you why switching to kde4 it has nothing new to offer in this setting.


Wednesday, July 16th 2008, 4:57am

After reading through everything here, and assuming KDE doesn't change direction, I'm dropping KDE. This is *not* the right direction. I don't want widgets. I don't want Vista-style transparencies. I don't want Mac-style menus. I want my old KDE experience refined. It's fine if the devs want to put those things in as a bonus, but if they're put in, they better be easy to turn off because one of the primary reasons I use KDE is because it works well on slower computers. Lots of people have said it by now- I would have much preferred that KDE3.x get fixed and extended, and I don't care for the 4.x venture at all.

If I wanted to use Vista, I'd use it (and I do on my desktop).
If I wanted to use a Mac, I'd use it (but I don't like Macs).
If I wanted to use GNOME, I'd use it (but KDE was better for me).

Stop trying to turn KDE into all the things it isn't, and just make what it is, better.

You can say that this is supposed to be an exciting new direction for KDE. You can say that it's supposed to promote exciting new developments... I say that it's unusably buggy crap that shows clearly broken development. I was hoping that all of this was a bit of flash in the pan, and that after the massacre that was 4.0 the dev team would put a clear focus on just getting the thing to work- but there's a "release candidate" out there that still just doesn't work, and the best people can say is that naming it RC was a promotional stunt, which reinforces the broken dev environment angle.

And for the record: No, I don't hate it just because it's new. In fact, I'm one of the seemingly few people out there who was rather pleased with Windows Vista, because I got a computer loaded with it, and it worked. KDE 4 doesn't work, and from the looks of it, I'm not going to be pleased with how it works when it gets working. My FC8 install met with a weird end, and I don't want to bother going back because of it. It looks like 3.x will be pretty much dropped when it's all said and done, so I either need to find an OS that's committed to KDE3.x, or change completely.


Wednesday, July 16th 2008, 6:34am

I'm obsessed with KDE4 in an entirely unhealthy way. I feel it looking over my shoulder like the Grim Reaper. I can't stop myself from running it and trying to make it work. I can't stop myself from making negative posts all over the web about it. I hate it, and I feel like I've spent enough time with it to form an opinion, but I wouldn't want to deprive the developers of a chance to fully implement their vision. I suspect that it will all work out, but good or bad, it needs to play out.


Wednesday, July 16th 2008, 6:43am

It looks like 3.x will be pretty much dropped when it's all said and done, so I either need to find an OS that's committed to KDE3.x, or change completely.
Take a look at Sabayon Linux
Think gentoo with an installer and update manager and package installer.
It offers KDE4 but KDE 3.5.9 is well supported.



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Wednesday, July 16th 2008, 9:03pm

KDE 4 and Opensuse 11.0

Still opensuse 11 with the latest kernel

Now we have KDE4.1 RC a release candidate

Deleted the kde4 sounds and replaced them bij the kde3 sounds
edit the notifications to the kde3 sounds
Now kde4 sounds like a normal program and not a cathedral with echo and ever so slow

No containers on the desktop that shit was in OS/2 Warp years ago, a concept long forgotten and rejected

Not kopete but Amsn and Emesene one in tcl/tk the other in Phyton
Xine for cd/dvd playing
Openoffice for letters
Xmms for playing music

Wth theme glacierr and desktop effects shadow and translucensy on the rest off the panel is translucent for 80% from right to left

Screenlets (in Phyton) compleet the desktop
A Calender Clock Wirelessinfo Gmail-notifier Radio ( bbc 2 3 sky fm streaming )

Supercaramba still is not working so weather info in Firefox great

Latest Compiz is working like a charm, so who needs the kde4 desktop effects????? Windows users ?????

Conclcusion :: Nothing new in kde4 only far more complicatet, sound through 4 layers so a windows opens the sound with it comes after 1 a 2 seconds not acceptable, overall only 60% off what is possible with KDE3

Apps i have not tested dont know if there are any cause i dont use them

I go back to kde 3.5.9 :thumbsup: goodby to kde4 to never-never-land you tried it and screwed up big time. :thumbdown:



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Thursday, July 17th 2008, 2:10am

KDE 4 and Opensuse 11.0

In the end the user has to say what sofware and how the sofware has to act, wil be installed in his system

I use Opensuse 11.0 with the normal updates.

Kde4 RC1 is GONE TO NEVER NEVER LAND and will not return for very long TIME cause the devs wont listen to the users
and as so long nothing is changing it wil be never never land.
Sound has to change to alsa cause now it is shit with delays from 1 to 5 seconds to hear sound
Palsma has to react the same as in kde3 so the panel is the same as in kde3 two panels on top of each other bottom the normal stuf as clock pager etc etc top-one the taskbar 1 row tiny
Icons on taskbar en on the panel
No more silly plasmoids or what ever they are called normal Applet from kde3 from xos from xfce what ever have to run on that desktop no conversions no rewriting no 2 the time for a applet 1e for kde3 now for kde4 in never never land

Kde3 lifecycle must at least be 10 years or longer with upgrades every 6 month
So dont waste time on kde4 cause the upgrade kde3 3.5.12 is coming


Thursday, July 17th 2008, 4:39pm

Sorry to interrupt the 'Whine Party' But I thought I'd point a couple things out. KDE 3.5 wont magically stop working with the introduction of 4. I'm by no means a KDE veteran (in fact I didn't care for 3.5 at all) but its hard to ignore the vision that is going into 4+. What seems to be an adverse move now has more longevity than the 'same ole' you guys are used to. It seems to me that 4.2 will be configurable to the point of being like 3.5. The KDE team is working hard to ensure that not only KDE, but *nix itself is here to stay. Give them a chance to realize their vision without all the bitching. Use 3.5 for the meantime.


Thursday, July 17th 2008, 4:57pm

Sorry to interrupt the 'Whine Party' But I thought I'd point a couple things out. KDE 3.5 wont magically stop working with the introduction of 4. I'm by no means a KDE veteran (in fact I didn't care for 3.5 at all) but its hard to ignore the vision that is going into 4+. What seems to be an adverse move now has more longevity than the 'same ole' you guys are used to. It seems to me that 4.2 will be configurable to the point of being like 3.5. The KDE team is working hard to ensure that not only KDE, but *nix itself is here to stay. Give them a chance to realize their vision without all the bitching. Use 3.5 for the meantime.
The problems as I see them are:

1) The first version of KDE4 released as a stable version was far from it.
2) KDE seems most interested in meeting the demands of the Ubuntu/Kubuntu, making KDE's controls nearly identical to gnome. If users wanted gnome-like controls they'd use gnome.
3) The devs are putting emphasis on simplifying and dumbing down components, taking away options, functions and controls used by long time users and focusing on attracting new less sophisticated users with simplified options.
3) The devs are ignoring the opinions of many long time users and are determined to implement their view of what KDE should be. Contrary to the prevailing opinion within many dev communities, simpler is NOT better.
5) There are WAY too many cheerleaders spewing praise for KDE4. I can't help wondering how many of these people are Ubuntu/Kubuntu fanboys who are proud that THEIR ideas of what KDE should be have become THE plans for what KDE will become.

I've been using KDE since switching from windows in August 2005 and when I see what's happening to KDE it makes me want to puke.



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Thursday, July 17th 2008, 4:59pm

KDE 4 and Opensuse 11.0

In answer to Imperfectlink

This is not a Whine party but a constant reminder off what is not right with kde4
read the hole story posting for posting and then you see the hole picture

If this RC is put in the wild as KDE4 4.1 the damage will be far greater as bringing it as kde4 develop release 4.1
There are to many problems with sound with config the desktop with mail and i can continue the list
Take those problems away remove desktop effects from QT4 and if you want them use Compiz
Make normal notification-sounds no cathedral with echo
so basic this is just a desktop with hardly no apps no applets no config as in kde3 bad sound no network-apps
and the silly Gnome and Vista like config tool


Thursday, July 17th 2008, 5:14pm

While I agree on the bug/instability front, I have to ask. What was it like in the early 3.0 days? On the usability front I have suggestions but agree that it seems there is nowhere to really be heard. I have observed and taken part in the Ubuntu community brainstorm and its apparently a good method. Go to and see what I think the KDE community needs. You contribute ideas and others vote on wether they are good ones. This gives the developer a chance to weigh the value of implementing them too. I tried out bugzilla but its pretty poor.



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Thursday, July 17th 2008, 6:10pm

How was it when kde3.0 came out??

I use Linux suse from release 5.0 with kde 1.0

There have been troubles and solutions

overall all kde dit what it was suppost to do

from kde2.0 on there was and

that completed the kde experiance.

But one thing before opensuse suse was a german company and from the time Novell took over i seen a slow change in attitude
by the management and bij the suse and opensuse devs

A Suse release had updates after the release and not like now the are updates many and Opensuse is not even released.
So in that light kde4 is born.

and now whe have problems again but no one is listening all the devs have a agenda and no time to come down to earth and see whats going on there

Basil Brush



Thursday, July 17th 2008, 6:36pm

I just upgraded my opensuse to version 11 and was excited to see the new KDE 4. My god, what a shock I got! Everyone else's comments here sum up my feeling too. It's a pile of crap. At first I felt put off by opensuse's ugly new green and grey 'hacker'/nvidia colour scheme, but then perked up when I saw the nice new graphical features of KDE 4, then became very annoyed and disappointed when I discovered KDE 4's nasty side.

My two biggest gripes are the gutted, windows-like taskbar and the insane idea of restricting the desktop to only being useful for holding icons as it doesn't allow any filesystem actions (either through keys or through context menu). Whoever designed that desktop should be lynched from the nearest tree. There's a good reason why point-and-click desktops haven't changed in 30 years, because they're most useful the way they are, and getting clever only spoils it. I never launch apps from desktop icons, I do it from pop out panels that I have arranged around the edges of my screen. I use the desktop purely as a temp storage and working place for files and projects that I'm working on recently. So I was devastated to see what they'd done with KDE 4. Adjusting to KDE 4 would require me to work in a completely different way. I feel like they must have replaced half their team with people who knew nothing about interface design and put the other half on drugs.

I second those comments about the crappy new KDE control panel. I looks even more casual and unprofessional that the Windows one. And where the hell are all the options gone? You can't be serious?

Also why have three quarters of the screensavers been thrown out, including my favourite one?

While I detest KDE 4 and shall never use it again it did very much like the transparency, shadows, opengl and that very nice feature of putting your mouse in the corner to see a list of your windows which you can then click on to select one - depending on your mood and working style that could even replace the taskbar, freeing up more screen space.

My advice to the KDE team would be to stick with 3.5 and add in these extra 4.0 graphical gimicks and polish, and abandon 4.0 completely. It's a disaster! Probably the worst software disaster I've seen. Fortunately the suse installer gives the option to have 3.5 instead - I hope they keep that option in future releases as well.

It's nice that the KDE team tried to have some imagination and I guess they felt the urge to create a 21st century interface, but what they've created looks like a specialised interface for a specific application, like a PDA etc., and is not suited to general purpose desktop computing. I think they spent to long staring at their iPhones! lol The KDE team need to get it through their head that for general computing on flat display panels the operating style of desktops will never change, even in 200 years time. Attempts to make things different never really get anywhere.

I really hope they get their act together and stop messing around like this. Please DO NOT remove any existing functionality that was in 3.5. 3.5 is a fantastic system, well designed with lots of configuration and flexibility. And when you add extra stuff please give us the option to disable it if we don't want it. Thanks.




Friday, July 18th 2008, 3:49pm

Conspiracy Theory

Has anyone considered that Microsoft could secretly payoff individuals who are key leaders in the development of open software? Crazy? Perhaps. Yet, can it not be a possibility when suddenly, developers stop listening to users and talk of a fork happens?

Has anyone stopped to consider that this makes open software development look bad and could be used as an argument to stay with Microsoft?

Baring unreasonableness, users must be allowed to voice their opinions and developers have a greater responsibility to set their pride aside and calm the waters. Obviously, feeling have been hurt, developers have worked long and hard. Now, we must consider the big picture.

Open software is NOT in the clear yet. Many people have not even heard of it. Microsoft desperately wants to keep it that way. Open software is not the pet project of power users alone! If that were true, then we will never see most people using open software. We will never get over the restricted driver and troublesome hardware manufactures problems and we will be further restricted to non-standards; that kill real user ease, for decades to come.

We do need to simply; where new Windows converts can best FEEL comfortable. Yet at the same time, why not leave options for the power users to tweak to their hearts content. These are the new necessities. Why doesn't the new (pre) KDE 4.1 and the team address these; thoroughly?

Change must take place in order to get from where we are now, to much grater user ease. That is defined as TIME SAVING! Newbie or guru do not have the time to customize their systems and that's why it's best to hit the ground running (and even look good) even though personal preferences can be changed. Do you know how many people don't even change the background, ever?

Look, psychology observes that only about 25% of all people are technical. We have to speck to the other 75%! It's really that simple. We have got to stop pandering to us technical nerds alone. Why are we fighting this? It's not like you can't build Linux from scratch, run Gentoo or customize to your hearts content. I'm talking about building a distribution for the rest of us.

Now, we have an opportunity to build a total system bundle that beats the pants off anything Microsoft or Apple can come up with. While we must not leave ANY benefit behind (don't forget that), we need to push far into "better" than has ever been done. For this vision, I compliment the KDE team. yet we must manage change better.

People HATE change. I generally like change but I was shocked by KDE 4.1. I like much of it but it was a shocking change; that raised many questions. Where's the transition? Where's the "classic" choice? What's going to happen if I fall back to KDE 3.x? How long is it going to take, to stabilize it? The point is, we have to ease people into "better" and it better then BE better. Don't scare people like that!

If you remember one thing...manage the change.

Erik 2



Friday, July 18th 2008, 11:50pm

Ok, I accept that most people are really not competent enough to be using a computer in the first place, and just want to use a word processor or spreadsheet etc. While I refuse to sacrifice the "power user" functionality in order to appease and attract these people, I do welcome any attempts to make it easier for these people to use linux. I agree with what the previous poster said. Maybe KDE needs to retain all "power user" functionality but doesn't necessarily show it to the user unless asked to do so - like in mozilla where typing in the url of "about:config" will give you a huge range of options that far exceeds what you can see in the preferences dialog. So maybe KDE can use an Age of Empires type approach whereby the user can select between a simple interface and a complex interface. Ok this means the dev people have to construct two GUIs but if that's what makes everyone happy then it's more than worth it - besides all the backend preferences code only needs to be written once and you just have two GUIs connecting to it, or maybe one GUI that is self-modifying like these dynamic ajax webpage forms you see now. Another option is to retain the complex interface as it is in 3.5 and provide a control panel wizard that at a click of a button takes you through the simpler most used preferences in a nice easy computers-for-dummies style. In other words, leave 3.5 as it is and throw in a big system utility that says "hey, if you're of average intellect of lower, please use me to configure your KDE desktop!" The user can ignore every other button or utility that they don't understand or are too afraid to use. They get to tweak their desktop within a limited Windows-like way, and us "power users" can carry on as normal and not miss anything we fact to us is seems nothing has changed, we just don't install the dummies system utility. :P

When the dummies system utility is installed it shows in the KDE menu and also as a dialog at first login, much like the welcome dialog and KDE tips dialog on opensuse KDE.

It seems to me that you cannot make advanced users and novice users both happy at the same time with the same interface. Therefore one can only conclude that you need two interfaces, one for each type of user. There's just no way of getting around that. Maintaining two branches of KDE seems stupid when 95% of code would be indentical. So best course of action would seem to be to take 3.5 with all of its complex functionality and just provide and additional novice interface in addition to the standard advanced interface it already has. KDE doesn't lose functionality when you switch to novice interface, you're just not aware of, or presented with, that functionality in the GUI any more...but it's still there for any programs or plugins to use. KDE tries to appeal to as many people as possible by having themes and styles available so you can make your system look however you want. Surely the next logical step is to extend that to the actual GUI content itself. Every single option in every KDE dialog or system utility could be set to be visible or not visible. You could use a config dialog to set this property of every option individually, but also have a quick method of asking whether the user is novice, intermediate or advanced and then set all option visibilities automatically according to a predefined script. I know this is quite a bit of work but surely less work than what went into KDE 4.

If some devs really are sick of KDE 3.5 and want to do something radically different then I think they should respect the 3.5 community by going off and starting a new community for this radical mutant and let the maintainence of 3.5 continue as usual. I think the KDE team need to forget about trying to be the coolest or most popular interface - because in your attempt to keep up with fashion you'll up end changing your interface so often that you'll just piss people off and reduce your user base - and focus on pleasing their loyal users, the ones who've been using KDE for years, have stuck with it and love it for what it is. Did we ask for a radical mutation? I for one certainly didn't. I was just hoping for some bug fixes and maybe a few extra little treats. I mean come on, what can you expect from an already mature interface? What can you make KDE do that it already can't? Maybe the developers got bored and wanted a new project, hence the new radical deviation. But people should expect that development will slow down and become somewhat boring as a project matures. But it's not right abandon loyal users so you can dash off and start some new excitement. If KDE 3 maintainence isn't thrilling enough for these devs then maybe they should find something else to do.

What the hell happened to the philosophy of maintaining a good strong product? Modern society, that's what! Nobody gives a shit about tradition or long standing things any more. People get bored in fives minutes and everything has to be exciting. People will look back and say that the buzzwords and lifestyle of 1960 onwards was excitement, thrills, emotions and globalisation (a euphorism for fascist socialism). Sigh, here I go ranting again...



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Thursday, July 24th 2008, 2:24pm

Opensuse 11.0 kde4

Still opensuse 11 now with kernel 2.6.26-20-default

Kde3 flyes never have seen this.

and then kde4 4.0.99 1/3 slower as kde3
no problems with nvidia en8600gt card drivers 177-13
but let the installer configure xorg.conf

Screenlets work like a charm so no need for plasmoids widgets or what ever
latest Amsn svn version work fine no plobems open a chat the window it is there the munite you klick the kontakt.
in stead of xmms now qmms better integrated with qt

now working to get a map on the panel like in kde3
have to hack plasmarc to let it happen

so 4.0.99 has to go a very long long way before kde3 user can switch to kde4 withoud having bad dreams why is this not working

one other thing my screen a flatpanel 20 inch 1680 x 1050 gives a nice desktop with kde3
witk kde4 it seems so the resolution is still 1680x1050 your running a desktop 1024x800
plasma wont scaleup to a high resolution.
the hole screen all the programs on it seem larger more sluggisch les detail hardly no schadow etc etc.

So for the time being we stick to kde3.5.9 version 65.2

That does what i want the way i want it and is quick.:D



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Friday, July 25th 2008, 4:04pm

Opensuse 11.0 kde4 update

Update for kde4:

One fine thing just found::
Edit /etc/sysconfig/displaymanager

## Type: string(Xorg,Xgl)
## Path: Desktop/Display manager
## Default: "Xorg"
# Xgl is an experimental Xserver using OpenGL for rendering.
# Right now only the glx backend is supported, which runs on top of a
# standard Xorg server providing OpenGL.
# Set this to 'Xgl' and run SuSEconfig only if you want to run your
# displaymanager (kdm/gdm/xdm) on Xgl on top of Xorg.
# This setting is case sensitive.
# Warning! This is highly experimental.


Now kde4 is working as it should for more speed disable desktop animation from settings
With all the alterations mentioned before you have a working desktop

no fancy shit from kde4 for that start compiz :thumbsup:


Friday, July 25th 2008, 4:14pm

Feel free to add this to the tutorials & tips section, if you like.



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Tuesday, July 29th 2008, 4:37am

kde4 4.1

It's 23.27 local here that is 05.30 in the Netherlands Germany etc

On many questions we heard time over time wait till kde 4.1 then you have your missing options in kde4

The planning was release kde 4.1 on July 29 2008

now it is july 29 05.30 in Europe

not a single kde 4.1 rpm to find

So maybe it is 2009 for kde 4.1??

pleasant dreams for those in my time zone :D


Tuesday, July 29th 2008, 8:03am

It will arrive today, that's for sure. Not before 12 UTC, maybe even later. But the rpms depend on your distribution, so who knows how fast they are. Wait for the announcement first.



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Tuesday, July 29th 2008, 3:05pm

kde 4.1

I have now upgraded kde4 4.0.99 to 4.1.0

Nothing changed still the same complaints sounds audio wallpapers configure options remove the plasma handles

To configure the desktop you have to be on 6 different places right klick here left klick there

A extra panel still cant be on top of the first one

You still have to use Xgl instead of Xorg to have normal speed with a Nvidia card

It looks like it but thats all.
SO DO NOT INSTALL KDE 4.1 it is a waste off time

KDE 3.5.9 the one and only